Which team won Day 1 of NBA free agency? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• Ty Jerome Signs with Memphis Grizzlies: Ty Jerome has signed a three-year, $28 million deal with the Memphis Grizzlies, marking the end of his tenure with the Cleveland Cavaliers. The contract came in lower than expected at approximately $9.3 million per year, compared to initial projections of $12-14 million. This move follows the Cavaliers’ signings of Lonzo Ball, Sam Merrill, and Tyrese Proctor, which made Jerome’s departure more likely.
• Cavaliers Choose Sam Merrill Over Ty Jerome: The Cavaliers opted to retain Sam Merrill on a four-year, $38 million contract instead of re-signing Ty Jerome. This decision was described as nuanced rather than straightforward, with multiple factors involved including salary cap constraints, roster composition, and skill set complementarity. Merrill will become the highest-paid 60th pick in NBA history, surpassing Isaiah Thomas who previously held that distinction at around $32 million.
• Salary Cap Constraints Forced Difficult Decisions: The Cavaliers faced significant salary cap challenges due to the new CBA and second apron restrictions. The organization knew they couldn’t keep Isaac Okoro, Ty Jerome, and Sam Merrill, as doing so would have pushed them deep into the luxury tax and potentially set records for roster spending. For the Cavaliers, Jerome’s $9 million annual salary would have translated to more than $50 million in luxury tax implications, pushing them further above the second apron and making future flexibility more difficult.
• Skill Set Compatibility Factored into Decision: The hosts emphasized that the decision between Jerome and Merrill wasn’t simply about which player was better, but about which skill set better complemented the existing roster. Sam Merrill’s off-ball movement, three-point shooting, cutting ability, and improved defense were valued traits that the team needed. Jerome, while talented, is more ball-dominant and requires possession to be effective, which potentially conflicted with the team’s other ball handlers like Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, and newly acquired Lonzo Ball.
• Playoff Performance Considerations: Playoff viability was a key factor in the Cavaliers’ decision-making process. The hosts discussed how Ty Jerome was targeted defensively by the Indiana Pacers during the playoffs, while Sam Merrill is viewed as less exploitable defensively in postseason matchups. The team is focused on building for the “16-game season” (playoffs) rather than just regular season success, and this influenced their personnel decisions.
• De’Andre Hunter’s Role Expected to Expand: The discussion highlighted that De’Andre Hunter, acquired at the trade deadline, could have an expanded role in the second unit. Hunter was in the running for Sixth Man of the Year with Atlanta before joining Cleveland, and the hosts suggested he could anchor the second unit and potentially be in contention for that award again. Without Ty Jerome dominating the ball, Hunter may have more opportunities to thrive in a role similar to what made him successful in Atlanta.
• Kenny Atkinson’s System Requires Movement: The podcast emphasized that head coach Kenny Atkinson’s system requires not just ball movement but body movement, which influenced roster decisions. The hosts noted that at times the offense became stagnant with both Jerome and Hunter on the floor because they weren’t accustomed to the constant movement required. The new roster construction with Merrill’s off-ball skills and Ball’s facilitating abilities may better fit Atkinson’s vision for offensive flow and spacing.
• Eastern Conference Teams Making Major Moves: The hosts identified several Eastern Conference teams making significant improvements during free agency. The Orlando Magic added Desmond Bane via trade and signed Tyus Jones as a backup point guard, addressing their shooting, ball-handling and turnover issues. The Atlanta Hawks acquired Kristaps Porzingis before free agency and added Nickeil Alexander-Walker and Luke Kennard to provide shooting, spacing, and defense around Trae Young. The New York Knicks reportedly agreed to terms with Jordan Clarkson to bolster their bench scoring.
• Atlanta’s Defensive Strategy Around Trae Young: The hosts were particularly impressed with Atlanta’s strategic approach to building around Trae Young’s defensive limitations. The Hawks recognized Young’s defensive weaknesses and compensated by surrounding him with size, length, athleticism, and defensive specialists like Dyson Daniels and Nickeil Alexander-Walker. This approach aims to make the Hawks a difficult matchup despite having a targeted defensive liability in Young, similar to how the Indiana Pacers constructed their roster.
• Houston Rockets Among Top Free Agency Winners: While focusing primarily on Eastern Conference teams, the hosts identified the Houston Rockets as perhaps making the best acquisitions during the free agent market. Their revamped roster now includes Kevin Durant, Fred VanVleet, Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith Jr., Cam Whitmore, Alperen Sengun, and Clint Capela among others. The hosts considered Houston, along with Orlando and Atlanta, as the top three teams coming out of day one of free agency in terms of roster improvement.

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Transcript

NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.

Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me per usual, you know ‘em, you love ‘em. Chris Fedor. It has started Free agency. Let the craziness begin. And even though it might have taken a few minutes more than some might have hoped, free agency kicked off today at 6:00, and the Cavs were one of the first teams to lose a player officially Ty Jerome signing a contract with the Memphis Grizzlies. We talked about it a little bit on our last podcast, how this was seeing as a near end for the tenure of Ty Jerome with the Cleveland Cavaliers after signing Lonzo Ball, after signing Sam Merrill, after signing Tyrese Proctor. Chris, what did you make of this decision? And to me, the contract itself, in the comparison to Sam Merrill is what stands out the most. And what was surprising, we had him around 12 to 14. He got around $9.3 million a year. What do you think about that?

Chris Fedor: Look, I mean, I just think, Ethan, so many people want a straightforward answer on, on these things, but I think they’re complicated decisions. And I think the reality of the situation that the Cavs are in with their salary cap and with the new CBA and all the penalties and the restrictions that come with being a second apron team, it is complicated and it does require an organization to make difficult decisions. And I think coming into this off season, the Cavs knew that they weren’t going to be able to keep Isaac Okoro, Tai Jerome and Sam Merrill. They traded away Isaac Okoro. They resigned Sam Merrill, and they didn’t resign Ty Jerome. If they would have brought back all three of those guys, they would have been looking at a future deep into the luxury tax, way above the second apron, and they probably would have been setting records for how much they were spending pending on this roster. And it’s just, you can’t do that. You can’t keep everybody together, not in this era. Ask the Denver Nuggets about it. Ask the Boston Celtics about just becomes really, really complicated to, to keep everybody that you want to keep on the roster. And for the Cavs, you know, when you’re talking about tie, he’s going to be missed, there’s no doubt about it. The things that he brings to the table, the basketball iq, the swagger that he plays with, the shot creation, the shot making, the playmaking, his ability to effectively run pick and roll, his leadership, his winning traits, all of that stuff, the Cavs are going to miss. And I think they would admit that too, but they’re just in a situation where for a variety of different reasons, they couldn’t afford to bring back Ty Jerome.

Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris. And just to get into the specifics a little bit, for those who aren’t unaware, Ty Jerome agreed to a three year, $28 million deal with the Memphis Grizzlies, while the Cavs retained Sam Merrill on a four year, $38 million contract for. And if you didn’t know this already, Chris, Sam Merrill will become the highest paid 60th pick in NBA history, surpassing Isaiah Thomas, who was making 32 and a half million dollars around that range. So I do think it’s interesting though, because we talked about this a little bit yesterday, how the different qualities of players and the different intangibles that each player has and the style of play that fits into the system of Kenny Atkinson and the Cleveland Cavaliers. To me, we touched on the defense a lot, right. And that makes a whole lot of sense because of what Indiana did to Ty Jerome. Anytime he was on the floor, we knew it was going to happen. They attacked him, they put him in every single situation and action that was possible. But some fans are looking at the offensive production and being like, oh well, Ty Jerome only had two, two bad games in the playoffs. When it comes to his production offensively, well, you could look at that. But you could also look at the fact that he is a ball centric player. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He creates his own shot, which is one of the things that is going to be lost by the Cleveland Cavaliers. But also there were times where Ty Jerome would get the ball and have to shoot his way out of a slump and it didn’t call for that situation necessarily. Right. He would shoot himself into more problems than shooting him out of some. So I think in the playoffs you see this guy who is one of the best and obviously six man of the year finalist, one of the best players off the bench. He utilized so much off the bench for the Cavs and energized so much. But when you see what Lonzo Ball is going to be able to do in his role with Darius Garland coming back at some point this season, hopefully sooner rather than later. Right. You still have Craig Porter Jr. On your bench. You have Tyrese Proctor on your bench. All of these players are able to play on and off the ball. They don’t necessarily need the ball in their hands to be effective, to be efficient. And I think that’s what Ty Jerome lacks when it comes to this Cavs team and what Kenny Atkinson is looking for. And Chris, I wanted to ask you this because there has been questions circulating the interwebs as they do on free agency day. Do you feel like the Cavs chose between Sam Merrill and Ty Jerome, or do you think this is a role for Ty Jerome in Memphis that is going to elevate him to something that the Cavs could not have given him?

Chris Fedor: In a general sense, it’s hard to look at the situation and say something other than that, but I think it’s a nuanced conversation. I think when you talk about the roster construction of the Cavs, the goal here is to build a championship team. The goal here is to find the right complimentary skill sets. The goal here is to find pieces that fit. And it’s not about always the best player or the most talented player. I think a lot of people would say that Ty Jerome is a more talented offensive player than Sam Merrill, but it’s about making everything fit the right way, and it’s about dealing with the roster composition that you have in place. And for the Cavs, you know, over the last week, week and a half, the. The roster complexion has changed. They traded for Lonzo Ball. They drafted Tyrese Proctor with the 49th overall pick. Now, again, nobody is going to sit here and say that Tyrese Proctor is going to be Ty Jerome, or he’s going to replicate the skills of Ty Jerome, or he’s going to replicate the production of Ty Jerome. But he can do some of the Ty Jerome things. Lonzo Ball, same thing. He can do some of the ties, your own things. He can organize the offense, he can get you into your sets. He can play out of the pick and roll. He can handle some of those ball handling responsibilities. And he’s a way, way better defender than Ty Jerome is. So I think when you look at the totality of this roster, they needed somebody to bring the stuff that Sam does, because there’s a dearth of that on this roster. The only player comparable to Sam on this roster is Max, okay? But you need his movement, you need his gravity, you need his three point shooting. He’s one of the best off ball cutters in the entire NBA. Sam Merrill is. And I just think the Cavs value Sam and the things that he brings to the table. On top of that, they believe in him more as a playoff performer. They believe in him more as a defender. They don’t think he’s going to get picked on the same kind of way as Ty. They don’t think he’s going to get exploited as much as as tie. So if, if this was a situation where the Cavs didn’t already have Lonzo ball, they didn’t already have Darius Garland, they didn’t already have Donovan Mitchell, and this roster was built in a different kind of way. And they sat there and they looked at this roster and said, we have a dearth of playmaking, we don’t have enough ball handlers. Then they probably look at Ty Jerome and value him a little bit more, right? But they do have a bunch of different guys that can handle the ball. And on top of all of that, Ethan, the offense is going to run more through Evan Mobley than it has in the past. So that’s going to take touches away, that’s going to take shot attempts away, that’s going to take some usage away. And I just think they feel like even though they’re going to miss tie and even though they’re going to feel that loss, I don’t think they felt like they were going to feel it the same kind of way as if they would have let Sam walk out the door. And it’s hard to look at this situation and say, well, Ty’s the better player, ties the more productive player. Ty finished third and sixth man of the year. What could they possibly be thinking from that standpoint? And again, it’s about a skill set, it’s about a style of player, it’s about what they think works best in this offense with the other components that are already on this roster. So if they look at Sam Merrill and they say better off ball player, better defender, you can’t really dispute that, right? He is a better off ball player, he is a better defender. So those are two things that they like about Sam. And I think the other thing that, that you come down to here, Ethan, is that one of the things that you have to be cognizant of when trying to build a championship team in today’s era with these bloated contracts and these huge, huge numbers that you have at the top of your roster with Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, you have to be really, really cognizant about how you’re going to spend throughout the remainder of the roster and you have to feel like you have enough of your bases covered. And if you’re going to be a second apron team, okay, you’re going to be a second apron team. If you’re going to be a luxury tax team, okay, you’re going to be a luxury tax team. But the deeper you go into the luxury tax, the harder it’s going to be to get out of it. The more you go above the second apron, the more moves you’re going to eventually have to make to get back below the second apron. And even though it was just a $9 million annual salary for Ty Jerome for the Cavs in luxury tax, that’s more than $50 million for the Cavs, that puts them further above the second apron and makes it harder to get below the second apron again. So, again, I think everybody is looking for this easy answer and they’re looking for a straightforward response of this is the one reason why the Cavs quote, unquote, picked Sam Merrill over Ty Jerome. And there’s not just like one reason why they, quote, unquote picked Sam Merrill over Ty Jerome. It’s a nuanced conversation. There are a lot of factors that played into it and they might end up being wrong. It’s entirely possible that Ty Jerome makes them pay for this decision. It’s entirely possible that this one blows up in their face and they made the wrong choice that they shouldn’t have given Sam Merrill four years, $38 million. It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t live up to that contract. He doesn’t play to that kind of contract. We’re just going to have to wait and see.

Ethan Sands: Chris. The other conversation that I’ve been seeing circulating is how much the Cavs are going to lose depth wise. Like when you go to that second unit, are the Cavs going to be the same? And to me, I don’t think they’re going to be worse without Ty in this scenario, as you mentioned, because they went got Lonzo because they brought back Sam and because I also think DeAndre Hunter is going to have a bigger role in that second unit if the Cavs decide to continue having Max dress as a starting small forward.

Chris Fedor: There’s another layer to that. I think people are forgetting something at the trade deadline, Ethan. They traded for a guy who was in the running for sixth man of the year, DeAndre Hunter. If DeAndre Hunter continues to come off the bench, and this is a decision that Kenny Atkinson’s going to have to make. But if DeAndre Hunter is going to have to come off the bench or he’s going to continue to come off the bench, he’s probably going to be in the sixth man of the year running just like he was for Atlanta. He was having a career year with the Atlanta Hawks, primarily playing off the bench. Why? Because he had more freedom. Because he had More touches because he had more shot attempts because he wasn’t playing alongside a ball dominant player like Trey Young. And if you take DeAndre and you say DeAndre, you be the anchor of the second unit, DeAndre, you be the stabilizing force of the second unit. That one, is a role that he has done at a high level before and two, it’s a role that it seems like he’s very comfortable in.

Ethan Sands: When we talk about DeAndre Hunter and as I was getting into like his role is likely going to increase and you mentioned playing next to a ball dominant guard. I don’t think it’s, it’s hard to say or harsh to say that Ty Jerome was a more ball dominant point guard than he was a pass first point guard. It felt like he had a lot of isocentric actions for himself. He was able to create his shot that was one of the best parts of his game. But if you have a second unit run by Ty Jerome and DeAndre Hunter, you’re back in the situation where it feels like DeAndre Hunter is playing next to Trae Young and a ball dominant guard, right? So instead you now have a situation where you’re coming in with a non ball dominant point guard in Lonzo Ball who can handle the ball, facilitate and get actions going. But you also have Sam Merrill spacing the floor and also coming off screens and all these things. The other thing, when it comes to the ty drum and DeAndre Hunter dynamic, as great as it was in theory, as great as the chemistry was because of what they accomplished in college, the reality is at times the offense got stagnant with both of them on the floor. Because in Kenny Atkinson’s system, it, it requires not just ball movement, but body movement. And those two players were not used to moving their bodies as much as required to be successful in Kenny Atkinson’s lineups. But I think when you talk about a second unit that now has the spacing, has this flowing, moving options and DeAndre Hunter is going to feel more acclimated coming off the summer with Cleveland and Kenny Atkinson that you’re going to have a better understanding of what he’s capable of, where he’s most comfortable and how to make him the most efficient in the lineups that you have created. And again, to just hammer down on this point, without Ty Jerome, you now don’t have anybody that feels like they need the ball in their hands to be successful. Imagine you have DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mobley as the two primary scorers on the floor with Lonzo Ball and Sam Merrill and maybe even Jarrett Allen and whoever if the Cavs decide to go and get a backup big man. Right? That’s the ideal look for this Cavs team when you talk about spacing, when you talk about movement, when you talk about offensive efficiency, productivity and creation. So I just think Cavs fans that are continuing to say that this is already a step backwards for the Cavs aren’t looking at the bigger picture and what the Cavs and Kenny Atkinson have been telling us since last season.

Chris Fedor: I think there’s another thing in play here too, Ethan, if you think about, and we’ve talked about this so many times on the podcast, for them it’s about the 16 game season. For them it’s about the playoffs. And what does this team look like when you’re talking about a playoff run? They have Donovan Mitchell, they have Darius Garland. They now have Lonzo Ball. How many minutes a night was tied? Jerome going to get with that kind of hierarchy? What was he going to get when you got into the playoffs? What, 16 to 18 minutes? Something along those lines. Okay. I mean he averaged 19 minutes during the regular season this past year for the Cavs. He still finished third in Sixth man of the Year voting, but he was a 19 minute a night player. It’s just hard to continue to fit all of these different guys in here when they have similar skill sets and they’re asked to do similar things within the offense or within the structure of the team. Sam Merrill is not like Ty Jerome. Sam Merrill is not like Lonzo Ball. Sam Merrill is not like Darius Garland. Sam Merrill, he can carve out a role. He can consistently get minutes. He because the skill set that he brings to the table, the style of player that he is, the role that he occupies within the hierarchy of this team separates him. It makes him a little bit different. And this is still the early stages of free agency. And the Cavs are going to look at veteran minimum contract guys. Maybe some of those are guards, maybe some of those are wings, maybe some of those are bigs, maybe some of those are more reliable point guards than Craig Porter Jr. If you want to go that far. It just kind of depends on who’s out there and who’s willing to come here for the Cavs. But this is about finding the best fitting roster that you can possibly find. This is about finding the right skill sets that are going to be maximized in Kenny Atkinson’s offensive system and then again on the defensive end of the floor. And I think if we were having this conversation two and a half weeks ago and Proctor wasn’t on the roster and Lonzo Ball wasn’t on the roster. It’s probably a different kind of conversation internally for the Cavs when it comes to Ty. I think there’s something else that, that other people have to ask themselves here. And again, I love Ty Jerome, the basketball player. He got my vote, my, my personal vote for six man of the year because you could feel his impact because you cannot diminish what he meant to this team throughout the course of the regular season and the kind of regular season that he had. So this isn’t a knock against Ty. This is just reading the situation in its totality. If, if Ty was that coveted, if Ty was that beloved, and if this was a quote unquote below market value deal, why didn’t somebody else beat it? You know how many teams around the NBA had the full, the full mid level exception? 24 of them. 24. Do you know how many teams in the NBA offered Ty Jerome the full mid level exception? Zero. So if he was that coveted, why didn’t somebody beat Memphis’s offer of three years? 28 million.

Ethan Sands: Yep. It’s an interesting question, right, Chris? Because as we talked about it throughout the summer, we were projecting him at 12 to 14 million dollars. Right. And not to throw any shade, but we’re going to get into some teams that have made moves around the Eastern Conference and good buddy Caris LeVert went ahead and made more money than I. Jerome did this opportunity. Insane to think about, right? Somebody that we’ve known for a long time has an injury history. Ty Jerome obviously also has an injury history. Caris Avert a little bit older. Ty Jerome better be 28 years old. I believe there’s nuance to all of the conversations we’re going to have. But Chris, I wanted to get into the last part of this podcast which is dissecting the first day moves of the NBA free agency. Who you think was cooking in their front offices. And Chris, when it comes to the Eastern Conference, to me there’s two teams that stand out. One that we’ve talked about already making a huge splash before free agency began, the Orlando Magic trading for Desmond Bain obviously was huge. But now they went out and got a backup point guard in, Tyus Jones, another ball handler facilitator, someone that is so good and preventing turnovers. One of the weaknesses of the Orlando Magic, the potential rotation for the Orlando Magic this coming season is Jalen Sugg, Desmond Bain, Franz Wagner, Paolo Vancero, Wendell Carter Jr. As the starting unit, Tyus Jones Anthony Black, Tristan Da Silva and Jonathan Isaac coming off the bench. That’s a stacked rotation in the Eastern Conference with guys who have playoff experience now and a actually ready point guard to play in and facilitate. The other team is the Atlanta Hawks, who came in after getting Christoph Sporzingis again, another trade before free agency began. They ended up grabbing Nikhil Alexander Walker and Luke Kennard, shooting and spacing and defense. A whole lot of good going on for the Atlanta Hawks front office. Obviously their starting unit is likely going to be Trae Young, Dyson Daniels, Zachary Ricochet, Jalen Johnson and Kristas Porzingis with Nikhil Alexander Walker, Luke Kennard and Anyeko Okonwu coming off the bench. But Chris, maybe the best team acquisitions during the free agent market was the Houston Rockets. I know we’re talking about the Eastern Conference, but I had to throw this in there. Van Vliet, Holiday, Amend, Thompson, Shepherd Smith Jr. Ford, Finnick Smith, Tate Whitmore, Kevin Durant, Ethan Sengun, Capella and Stephen Adams. This is a stacked roster and I don’t know if we’re going to go as far as who is competing for the NBA Finals. We’re in day one, but I think if we’re talking about the top three teams out of day one of the free agent market, it’s got to be those three.

Chris Fedor: For me, those are the three obvious ones for sure. I’ll add two more though. I think the Knicks, with their reported deal that’s going to happen with Jordan Clarkson, I think that’s a big deal. Their bench was not a strength of the team. They had to play a lot of their starters heavy minutes. They completely collapsed when they went to non Jalen Brunson minutes. This is somebody who can cook on the offensive end of the floor. This is somebody who can, you know, run things offensively and just provide buckets off the bench in the non Jalen Brunson minutes. It’s the kind of piece that the Knicks have been needing. It’s the kind of piece that the Knicks have been missing. So them reportedly getting a deal done with with Jordan Clarkson when when he clears waivers. I think that’s a big deal for the Knicks. And then Denver getting Cam Johnson for Michael Porter Jr. Is a huge step forward. Cam Johnson is one of the best, best shooters in the entire NBA and now he’s going to play on a team alongside Jokic who creates great opportunities. That the kinds of shots that Cam Johnson is going to get in Denver he has never gotten before in his NBA career. The kind of Role that they’re going to ask him to play is one where he can thrive. So I thought that was a big move by Denver. And they also brought back Bruce Brown, who can come off the bench, provide energy, play multiple positions, defend multiple positions, have different kinds of roles. He’s been in Denver before, so there’s the chemistry there. He knows members of that coaching staff still. He knows that organization well. And it’s not like they’re asking him to play 30 minutes a night. It’s not like they’re asking him to play 25 minutes a night. Just come off the bench and be you, be the guy that you were for us in the past, set some good screens, play out of the pocket, elbow extended, all that kind of stuff. Bruce Brown has played that particular role before in the past, and he’s been successful in that role in the past, and he parlayed that into the big contract that he got in free agency a couple of years ago. So I don’t know that Denver is going to get all the splashy headlines the way that Atlanta is, the way that Houston is. But they were close last year, they were a hard out in the playoffs last year, and now they fortified their bench and they added a better player than Michael Porter Jr. And Cam Johnson, a guy who I think is going to fit in brilliantly alongside Jokic and everybody else in Denver. So to me, that championship window for the Nuggets has popped back open. I think anytime you have Jokic and you have Murray and you have Aaron Gordon and you’ve got champions on that roster, I think that the championship window was going to be open. But. But I think it’s probably a little bit more open than it was because of these roster enhancements that they made.

Ethan Sands: Chris, we talked about the Eastern Conference being wide open, and I think everybody in the east that was like, oh, we’ve been in the play in for a little bit. I think we can make a little bit of a push. All of these teams were like, oh no. If this is how the Boston Celtics are going to look, if this is how the Indiana faces are going to look, it could be scary hours. And I’m not ready to rank my Eastern Conference just yet, but I think the top four seeds are going to be very interesting, especially in comparison to the last few years. If you had to make a guess. And I’m going to throw you on the spot because you’re, you’re the beat reporter, you’re the big boss on town. Who do you think is making the biggest splash in The Eastern Conference this season off of Day 1 in free agency. What do you think, Chris?

Chris Fedor: Hard not to buy stock in Atlanta at this point because I think it shows something, Ethan. I think it shows recognizing the weakness that you have on your roster and figuring it out in terms of how we’re going to address it. Trae Young is little. Trae Young can’t defend. And Atlanta saying, we get that, we understand that he’s going to get targeted over and over and over again. But we also know that he could be an offensive engine. We also know that he can lead the NBA in assists. We also know that he has been a big time playoff performer and we also know that we’re going to have him on this roster. So what can we do to stay competitive and deal with those limitations that Trey has? And their idea is we’re just going to surround him with size and length and athleticism and defense and that that’s going to allow us to overcome those things. We’ll see. We’ll see if it happens. But the idea is very, very logical. You gotta deal with Dyson Daniels for 40 minutes, then you’ve gotta deal with Nikhil Alexander Walker, who wants to deal with those guys? It’s like going up against the Indiana Pacers defensively in a seven game series. You gotta deal with Nemhard, you gotta deal with McConnell, you’ve gotta deal with Aaron Nesmith, you gotta deal with Matherin, you gotta deal with shepherd. And you’re like, to hell with this, this sucks. And I think it’s gonna be the same thing when you play against the Hawks. I mean, there are lots of teams around the NBA that have a targeted player, that have a defensive weak point. Atlanta is the same way. They have one, it’s Trey Young. But if they’re going to be successful with Trey on that team, this is the way to do it. Surround them with dogs on the defensive end of the floor. Surround him with length and athleticism and feistiness. And that’s what they’ve done. And I’m really, really interested to see what it all looks like, especially with Quinn Snyder as the head coach. And I have a lot of respect for Quinn as a head coach. I think this is a team that sees an opening in the Eastern Conference and says, you know what? Don’t know what’s happening with Milwaukee. Boston’s out of the picture in the same way that they were in the picture before. There’s an opportunity here, let’s capitalize on it. And I think they have. And on top of that, I think Orlando is going to be really, really difficult to deal with. Tyus Jones is such a great fit there. There’s been one year, I think in the last five or six that he hasn’t led the NBA in assist to turnover ratio and it was this past year and it was Tyrese Halliburton who did. But Tyus Jones has either been first or tied for second in assist to turnover ratio. Willing to take and make big shots, doesn’t make mistakes, can run an offense, has that little float game too. Man, I think that’s a really good pickup for, for Orlando. It’s what a lot of people expected to happen, especially once Desmond Bain got traded there. Him and Ty Jones very close. But Tyus Jones to Orlando has been something that, that people around the NBA have been talking about for maybe the last three years and it hasn’t happened until now. And getting him one on the contract that they did and now in a lesser role than probably what he would have had to take in previous years, it’s probably going to be a really, really good version of Tyus Jones that the Magic get.

Ethan Sands: Chris, I gotta say this because Jimmy’s not here, but Trey Young being a player that has accepted the villain role and I have appreciated what he’s been able to do in that role, knowing that he played a part in the signings of players like Luke Kennard and Nikhil Alexander Walker having some influence in those decisions, I think it’s huge. It’s also funny because I know you know this about me. I’m always on the Internet. I’m always seeing what every player is trying to say and do. But there was an account that tagged trae Young on May 31 and was like, trae Young will be in the finals next year. Mark my words. And then the day after, Trae Young just responded with promise. And I don’t know how decisive or how influential Trae Young was in these decisions, but going to get Nikhil Alexander Walker going to get Luke Canard and, and obviously getting Krish Porzingis is definitely a huge step up. And even if you don’t consider it an off season pickup, they’re getting Jalen Johnson back at some point this season. And like I said earlier, Jalen Johnson is one of the best up and comers in the NBA. And I think the Cavs are going to have to try and prepare for a team like that. But Kenny Atkinson is saying that they can do that with movement, passing and selflessness and they have to do it together. But as we know, these teams with length, these teams with size, these teams with defensive identities, which it feels like the Atlanta Hawks are going to have coming into the season, are difficult for the Cavs to deal with. We’ll have to see if the Cavs are able to improve on this in the coming year. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become the Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. If you want to get inside information on what the Cavs might be doing in free agency, this is where you get it. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the cast from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through some text. Y’ all be safe. We out.

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